Fandom

Summoner's War: Sky Arena Wiki

Setting Up Generic Rune Builds

  • Greetings all!

    For those of you who have been paying attention, we're just about to go ahead with adding some generic rune builds to monster pages. In case anyone is wondering, when we say "Generic Builds" we are referring to cookie cutter builds that can be used by a wide variety of monsters. Before we start, I think it would be a good idea to gauge community feedback regarding how we would go about that. We currently have two approaches:

    • The first one is a simple free-for-all system where users will simply go about the various monster pages, and add builds they think are commonly used by the monster, as well as stats needed for that build. Everything is left up to the editor's discretion on what to set up the generic build.
    • The second approach is a more standardized one. Instead of a simple free-for-all, we would compile a list of generic builds together, along with the stats what would be good for that build. Once we have a list of builds, we would then simply go around the monster pages, and add builds based on the list we've created. There is room to add additional stats for the build on the actual monster page, but there would be some initial stats for the build at first.

    Either approach has it advantages and disadvantages. I think it would be good to get feedback from more members of the community, since ultimately it's community members who will be doing a lot of the work. Please let us know which approach you'd be in favor of. If there is another approach that you think could work, please feel free to let us know. It may even be better then the approaches outlined here!

      Loading editor
    • I feel the better approachment to such a task would be a mix of both Option A and B. Firstly, allow the community to "Poll" on which sets to use. Secondly, to list which Main stats for 2/4/6 are most viable, as well as listing the top 2 sub-stats that should be used on all runes for that given monster - Exampe: Ramagos - Vampire/Endure  HP%/HP%/HP%, 1/3/5 Should also have HP% of 10% or higher, All runes should have spd and a sum of 50% or better resistance (excluding the 20% from endure) . This is the build i use to solo clear b8 dragons, 

      After a certain amount of time, then begin your second Option, of Tallying up the comments on each monster, see where the community feels each monsters top build is, even their second most common build and then add those to the page. It would clutter the comments section up for the duration of this said polling, but at least then you can show the community that the builds posted into the page are not just your personal builds, but ones from the community.


      ~Vendui

        Loading editor
    • I just wanted to point out that these builds were meant to be very general ones, in order to apply to a wide variety of monsters. As such, the stats listed for them would also be something general, with just a mention of which stats to focus on, such as attack or speed. For example, Fatal/Blade with all atk%.

      We will have an opportunity for more monster specific builds in the future, and a process in place, but for now we're just focusing on very general builds.

      I do like your idea of "polling" for people's opinion. However, it may take too long and too difficult to manage to have people discussing the generic builds on individual monster pages. Might I suggest that the community first set up a list of agreed upon generic builds, and then have the community discuss which monsters should use those builds, all in one forum thread? This would speed things up a lot.

        Loading editor
    • Good way to learn the basics, should be good for beginners. For the general builds, I think it might be a good idea to focus on the skills.

      For instance if Hp mon and the skills deal dmg based on Hp, go energy runes with Hp% on 2/4/6. Try to get Hp% and speed on substats.

      If skills deal dmg based on attack, or if they don't say Hp, go fatal/energy runes with Att% on 2/4/6. Try to get att% and speed on substat.

      I've mentioned speed in the substats, which makes me think maybe speed should be ubiquitous for all builds and then a special focus for some mons with speed in the skills.

        Loading editor
    • Beboper wrote:
      I just wanted to point out that these builds were meant to be very general ones, in order to apply to a wide variety of monsters. As such, the stats listed for them would also be something general, with just a mention of which stats to focus on, such as attack or speed. For example, Fatal/Blade with all atk%.

      We will have an opportunity for more monster specific builds in the future, and a process in place, but for now we're just focusing on very general builds.

      I do like your idea of "polling" for people's opinion. However, it may take too long and too difficult to manage to have people discussing the generic builds on individual monster pages. Might I suggest that the community first set up a list of agreed upon generic builds, and then have the community discuss which monsters should use those builds, all in one forum thread? This would speed things up a lot.

      True, the most General build for Ramagos would be Triple Energy set with hp% in 2/4/6, works for almost everything hell up to Ferun iirc. Thats as generic as he gets :x

      I do however like the idea of putting both the generic, and more focused, builds into a forum thread rather than the comments section.

        Loading editor
    • @M4nitou Gl Having a rule of thumb like that is definitely a good way of going about it. It would probably be a good idea to emphasize both stats and skills when selecting what builds to put on monsters. Something to keep in mind once we get the community to select some generic builds to put on monsters. Speed is definitely useful for all monsters, although some monsters benefit more from it, so we'd probably only list speed for those monsters.

      @Olathural It's also worth mentioning that we'll also have the generic and focused builds put on the monster pages themselves. We'd just have the actual discussion take place in one place, so it's easier to coordinate.

        Loading editor
    • I don't think a suggested build kind of thing would ever work without having players complain.


      "Oh you can rune a unit this way" or

      "But this is how I currently rune him" or

      "But if you rune him this way, he'll fit this team".


      Just wouldn't really work out. I would know, I wrote this:http://forum.com2us.com/forum/main-forum/summoner-s-war/guides-and-tips-ac/649166-monster-rune-compilation

      And I still receive hate saying how bad it is. (Though the formatting could definitely use some work [but I have yet to receive a suggestion after asking multiple time to people  who despise my guide])

        Loading editor
    • Frankly, people will always find something to complain about. And really, it's hard to ever be perfect. You're bound to have disagreements, but you'll also have people that will agree.

      Regarding the build suggestions thing, I think that as long as the majority of the community thinks a build works on a monster, then that's really what matters. Plus, we'd definitely try and allow as many build possibilities on monster pages as possible, so it's definitely possible to have four or five builds be viable for a specific monster.

      Besides, from what I can tell, people generally seem to think positively about the rune guide you made, since I've seen most of those builds in at least one form or another, and I know a bunch who use the guide. If people hate your guide, and refuse to give any constructive feedback, then there isn't much you can do.

        Loading editor
    • I have opinions to offer, but I also have some questions. First, thanks for doing this. It's an awesome project for a Wikia to engage in, and it's wonderful that you're trying to encourage the community to use this to interact with each other! I know too that it is quite difficult to do so. Have you tried using the Wikia chat to get people to spend time here? With chat moderators it would be a safer and less spammy environment than the in-game channels. You'd also have a better chance of someone responding to your question.

      Anyway, my actual questions. Will the generic and advanced rune builds be separated on the monster page? I can imagine something like "new player builds" and "advanced players builds" being titles. Is that what you are planning, or is it something else?

      In the case of having New Player Rune Builds I think there should be preferably one build or two at max. Variety makes more sense for the Advanced builds. Along the same line, I think people should be able to vote on their favourite Advanced build, but not the New Player build - because I like the idea of the community deciding on the best one or two 'generic' builds for a monster. If people don't like it, it should be replaced.

      @Skeletoonz I think in the case of something like runes, strategic variety and controversy is wonderful! Wouldn't the game be boring if we all runed every monster Fatal/Energy? But I know it's unpleasant having people abuse your work.

        Loading editor
    • @Elise Serket Thank you for your thoughts!

      First off, we've tried using Wikia's live chat to get people engaged in the past. The biggest problem I guess is having people on hand to sort of sit in the chat for a reasonable amount of time to start a conversation. A few users have tried in the past, including our admin, but lack of people in the chat sort of takes away the incentive. Getting the chat going is something we've been trying to figure out.

      Now for the rune builds. We're not necessarily distinguishing between "simple" and "advanced". Instead, we're having a group of "generic" builds which are cookie cutter builds that apply to a wide variety of monsters. For example, Fatal/Blade with all atk%. These can be simple ones like what I mentioned, or they can be a more advanced build like Rage/Blade, atk%/crit d/atk%. The basic idea is that they apply to a lot of monsters.

      In addition, we'll also have more monster specific builds that are tailored for a specific monster's attributes. For example, Wolyung might have a build like Violent/Nemesis, atk%/crit d/hp%. Both the generic and specific builds would probably be listed under one heading on the monster page (although we could also separate them if that's what people want).

      The idea would be to have the community decide the generic builds all at once, and to have community feedback for the monster-specific builds one by one. But we can discuss the monster-specific builds later on.

      All that being said, I do like your idea of distinguishing between beginner builds and more advanced ones. I was thinking that both types of builds could have their own in-depth pages through links in the monster pages for those interested in more info, so we could add difficulty level there. We could also distinguish difficulty level on the monster pages themselves. Which approach do you think is more practical? Possibly both maybe?

        Loading editor
    • Beginner:

      Advance:

      Niche:


      How about that set-up? Niche is optional

        Loading editor
    • That setup could work. Could also do beginner, mid-game, late game, and niche. 

      We should establish whether to do that make the distinction directly on the monster pages. Currently, the table used to display rune builds looks like this.

        Loading editor
    • Thanks for responding. I think a very brief indicator of what the build is intended *for* (i.e. Beginners, Advanced, Arena Defence, PvP Offense, Giants, etc.) would be quite useful on the monster page itself. Then people can click to read more. Perhaps there would be a separate tag for "Generic" and "Niche" anyway? For example, I have a Rage/Blade build for Kaito which is generic in the sense that he is used for everything with this build. But I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner, because they wouldn't have enough damage without fatal. Another example: I am building a damage-over-time build for Taharus in order to defeat Cairos dungeons quicker (like Light and Water). It's a Niche build, but it's not as hard to complete for beginners, though you might rune it slightly differently (more crit chance, less accuracy). So that's why I'm arguing there should be a column called PURPOSE for "Generic/Niche" and a RUNE DIFFICULTY column for "Beginner/Advanced". Again, it's wonderful to get this going on the Wikia. It'll be really great once it's going.

        Loading editor
    • I imagine the chat would be very difficult to get going. It's great to hear you've trying, though! It's probably the best way to get a community active on Wikia - only editors seem to hang out here in most cases. Have you considered introducing other community pages? For example, a showcase of fan art, like the one I created here. Or perhaps a place for people to theorise about upcoming patches, or upcoming monsters. I'm sure you and the other regular editors have a better idea of what would catch attention, though.

        Loading editor
    • Alright, we'll try and have some kind of indicator of difficulty level/role on the monster pages themselves.

      I did consider maybe having a section on the site for fan content, such as fan art, fan fiction, etc. But I thought maybe that kind of thing deserves its own wiki/site, since this wiki serves as more of an encyclopedia. We do have the forums for people to speculate and discuss various things, but there hasn't been a lot of engagement there.

        Loading editor
    • Thanks for considering my opinions!

      Forums?

        Loading editor
    • The forums over here.

        Loading editor
    • Beboper
      Beboper removed this reply because:
      Question answered
      23:50, October 3, 2015
      This reply has been removed

      Can i ask i thing.... i used i think around 200 energy farming for one single rune even if its three star and i NOT ONCE got it facing the right direction... i got 33 runes and not a single one was facing the right direction... its almost making me wanna quit this game... Can anyone help me with this?

        Loading editor
    • Beboper
      Beboper removed this reply because:
      Question answered
      23:50, October 3, 2015
      This reply has been removed

      46.164.33.167 wrote: Can i ask i thing.... i used i think around 200 energy farming for one single rune even if its three star and i NOT ONCE got it facing the right direction... i got 33 runes and not a single one was facing the right direction... its almost making me wanna quit this game... Can anyone help me with this?

      If you are farming scenario, stage number corresponds to the slot the rune fits into (besides the boss stage, which will give you a random slot rune, with the occasion of it being one star higher than what you get out of the other 6 stages). On the other hand, if you're farming Giants/Dragons/Necropolis, you're out of luck, it's completely random.

        Loading editor
    • Beboper
      Beboper removed this reply because:
      Question answered
      23:50, October 3, 2015
      This reply has been removed

      holy... okay i'm ashamed.... thank you, i never thought about that, i feel incredibly stupid right now.. I thank you very much

        Loading editor
    • Beboper
      Beboper removed this reply because:
      Question answered
      23:50, October 3, 2015
      This reply has been removed

      46.164.33.167 wrote: holy... okay i'm ashamed.... thank you, i never thought about that, i feel incredibly stupid right now.. I thank you very much

      It's fine haha, I didn't figure all this out till about the start of my Mid-game

        Loading editor
    • For those interested, we've decided not to add a section on the monster page for purpose/role since the build's purpose should be apparent the in build name (if we have a standard naming convention). We'll still add a section for difficulty, although that term might be confusing to some people. We thought something along the lines of "requirements" might be a bit better.

      Let me know your thoughts on this. If we don't get any more feedback, then we'll probably just go ahead with that.

        Loading editor
    • By requirements, do you mean something like.

      Focus on x, y, z stats? Like for example - Lushen: CritDmg%, Atk%, CritRate%?

      Then again, in end-game arena, there is the problem where certain speeds work better for certain team compositions.

      For example, many people use Chloe + Sieq + Lushen x 2 with really slow Lushens and Sieqs whereas I use Bernard + Megan + Lushen + Lushen to have them moderately fast, depending on attack bar manipulation to outspeed the enemy.

        Loading editor
    • We will have a section for stat distribution. However, what I meant by "requirements" was basically how difficult it is to pull off a build. Basically, whether a build is more beginner level or more towards end game. Maybe "requirements" isn't the best term to use either.

        Loading editor
    • "Stage of Game"? Haha. Sounds dandy, anyway

        Loading editor
    • "Useful for:"

      Beginner players

      Advanced players

      Mid-level players

        Loading editor
    • "Useful for" sounds good. I've added in the extra column in the rune build table for monster pages. You can see what this would look like on Ramagos' page. Please take a look and let me know what you guys think.

        Loading editor
    • I use Ramagos end-game. Good tank for Fire and Wind nukers. The question is how do you define "Early/Mid/Endgame"

      Even YDCB still uses Ramagos as part of his never fail team.

        Loading editor
    • The Ramagos builds were just examples. That said, it is a good question. I suppose the key criteria would be a combination of how easy it is to get the required runes, and how useful the build is for different stages of the game. I guess going by that criteria, a build could be classified as both early and end game, depending on setup. 

        Loading editor
    • Looks great!

      Definitions are always tricky. I don't really have an answer for that. Maybe we just need a fourth category: "All players"?

        Loading editor
    • We could have an "All players" category as well. I guess we'll have to define what makes a build beginner, end-game, etc.

      For example, maybe if a build requires good despair runes, and the build is used commonly by mid-game players, then we classify it as that. I don't think we'd need to use in-depth criteria like that, but if we go by the difficulty of acquiring runes and who uses the build, it should be somewhat obvious what to classify the build.

        Loading editor
    • IMO we can classify the "useful for" stages as:

      • Beginner [Easily obtainable runes mostly for set effects not so much on rune grade]
      • Mid game [3-5* runes from shop or scenario and builds that fall off later in game]
      • Mid-End game [4-6* runes from shop or cairos dungeon that are not ridiculous to obtain]
      • End Game [5-6* runes with amazing substats aimed at end game arena]
      • All [Reasonably obtainable runes that work throughout all stages of the game]

      The explanation in brackets are how I personally view the stages and is up for discussion if needed.

      Beginner to mid-end would mostly focus on PvE while End game is geared towards Arena or "toy" monsters that players build for fun or to fit very niche roles.

        Loading editor
    • Those stages work for me. If no one else has anything else to add, I think we can begin coming up with some generic builds as a community, and deciding together which monsters should have those builds (we'll have a separate thread for that). We'll leave this thread open for a few days until then.

        Loading editor
    • 207.46.13.181
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message

Ad blocker interference detected!


Wikia is a free-to-use site that makes money from advertising. We have a modified experience for viewers using ad blockers

Wikia is not accessible if you’ve made further modifications. Remove the custom ad blocker rule(s) and the page will load as expected.